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Author Topic: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern  (Read 8469 times)

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Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« on: January 28, 2010, 09:10:16 pm »
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Well, like the title says I added the Bow and Rolling back in with 4Sword's last version of the Minish Cap Engine. With the Bow, I have done nothing fancy, just 1 single bow with a charge timer. I haven't added a charge effect with particles, because that is just a graphical extra that anyone can add.

I have also made the Lantern. Link is also capable of doing every other action, while holding the lantern. The test room also has a torch that Link can ignite.

Well, those are actually some small things to add. But my focus at the moment was twofold. First experimenting with scripts for actions and making it easy for new actions to be added to the engine. Second is to experiment with generic objects. Objects that are actually differentiated by the scripts assigned to them when created.

I'd love to hear some comments about them.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 03:26:39 pm by Niek »
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 05:17:04 am »
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source? I'd actually be interested in messing with the engine a little now. Maybe work on a surface system for the torch or something.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 05:37:10 am »
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The source is the top attachment. Also, not sure if this is a bug but if you roll onto the ice your movement speed either doesn't decrease fast enough or at all; and also if you do that onto ice and then try and move in the opposite direction you are sometimes able to do that really quickly.

It was also cool that you were able to get the bow walking sprites to be more efficient in terms of image dimension, but there is probably a better way to handle moving with an item such that the item's "shaking" doesn't have to be done in the image but rather some sort of displacement based on Link's image_index. Then again I haven't really looked into the plausibility of that; e.g. whether or not the bow is always in the same position when Link is on a certain image_index.

The lantern starting transition could be a bit quicker. There was an addition I was working on which divided parWall into parWall and parCorn which would give some efficiency; in that corners don't have to be large objects (could be 16 x 16) and that if checking for parWall was done first corner-cutting would also only be done if there was no "walls" around the corners. The bow and arrow was pretty cool too though in that it no longer uses Pro effects which unregistered has a fit with, and the charging seems to work pretty well so far. The any key stuff might be able to be sped up if if-else if statements are used, but otherwise the idea of doing it that way is a pretty good way to handle the event.

Nice job.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 08:57:54 am »
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source? I'd actually be interested in messing with the engine a little now. Maybe work on a surface system for the torch or something.
Like 4Sword said it is the top attachment. It is the rar-file because it contains both a GM7 and a GM8 version.

Also, not sure if this is a bug but if you roll onto the ice your movement speed either doesn't decrease fast enough or at all;
Yeah, the speed does not change at all. It does not accelerate nor decelerate. I have been looking at it in MC, but I can not really discern the behavior. Sometimes Link seems to accelerate on ice and sometimes not. Can't really find out what. I'm missing something obvious. Might have to tweak the ice movement parameters also.

and also if you do that onto ice and then try and move in the opposite direction you are sometimes able to do that really quickly.
That is a feature of MC as well. It all depends on your initial speed before rolling.

It was also cool that you were able to get the bow walking sprites to be more efficient in terms of image dimension, but there is probably a better way to handle moving with an item such that the item's "shaking" doesn't have to be done in the image but rather some sort of displacement based on Link's image_index. Then again I haven't really looked into the plausibility of that; e.g. whether or not the bow is always in the same position when Link is on a certain image_index.
Yeah cropping the images was a pain in the ass. Not that it is difficult, but it was a lot work. Walking animations with items can also be reduced to a single frame for the item, that is a fact. And you can alter it by giving the x and y an offset for each frame. But like with the cropping you've got the problem with lining the item up with Link.

And my monitor has a pretty high resolution, thus lining things up on pixel accuracy is damn hard. I think I felt my eyes popping once from the staring.
  
For example with the bow it has to be aligned with Link's front hand. When moving left GM frame 2, 3 and 6 need an y-offset of +1. When going down this is frame 2 and 6. But what I need to know is what GM does during draw_sprite(). Does it increase the image_index and then renders the image to the backbuffer, or does it render the image to the backbuffer and then increase the image_index. If I know that, I can decrease the walking frames for items.

The same also counts for walking with the Lantern. Ah well, sometimes you need to work on something else before you can improve your earlier work.

The lantern starting transition could be a bit quicker.
Yeah, I had the image_speed set to 0.05, to check the lining up of the lantern in every frame. After that an image_speed of 0.25 looked pretty quick. I think MC's usual speed is 0.33. I will change it. Also note that after loading there is a moment where the fire of the lantern is ignited. I didn't program the particle effect, but I did make the transition stage.

There was an addition I was working on which divided parWall into parWall and parCorn which would give some efficiency; in that corners don't have to be large objects (could be 16 x 16) and that if checking for parWall was done first corner-cutting would also only be done if there was no "walls" around the corners.
Yeah, saw that earlier. At this moment it looked best to do it this way. But I just checked with MC and I noticed a huge mistake. The igniting of the torch has an additional Link animation and is activated from a larger distance. So I still have to work on it. Beginning with ripping the ignition animation.

The any key stuff might be able to be sped up if if-else if statements are used, but otherwise the idea of doing it that way is a pretty good way to handle the event.
if-else is definitely more efficient. But I have to say that I only learned GameMaker in a few weeks over the last summer. I do not know the complete ins and outs of gamemaker yet. I didn't know when I use the <Any key> it would also generate multiple key events in a single cycle, when multiple buttons are pressed at the same time. When multiple key events are generated, then it is best to change it to if-else because it is real dumb to evaluate each button in every key event.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 09:43:48 am »
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About the ice rolling, it is like the way you coded it, if you start out on dry land and then roll onto ice, you'll be hauling so much ass. I ran it in debug mode and observed that Link's "speed" stayed at 4.5 when he got onto the ice rolling when in Minish Cap if you try to do that Link visibly slows down. I also tried in Minish Cap to roll from dry land onto ice and measure at a glance the distance Link traveled compared to if he just walked on and then drifted, and the distances were about the same - suggesting that the "speed" is near equal or due to human error equal.

Otherwise, I'll have to look more into going in the opposite direction by turning on ice; your second paragraph seems to observe that, where Link is just acting almost like he is just walking on the ice. I don't know, it's like if you roll when not moving too quick, it gives you a little boost that isn't always your maximum or something. Yeah, tweaking might work.

About the draw_sprite() function, I've always assumed that it works simply. Like, if the image_speed is 0.5 that means it'll draw a sub-image twice; i.e. the image_index will be a certain value for one step, then then next it will be the same image_index. The draw_sprite() function doesn't update the image_index at all I don't think. The image_index is just updated each step based on the image_speed, and the draw_sprite function just pumps out what gets put into it.

The parCorn/parWall stuff just takes into account that larger solid objects won't be corner-cuttable and that corners can be small; parCorn can still be the parent to the larger diagonal blocks with no consequence. An issue I ran across though without the separation involved halving Link jump onto a moving platform off a ledge bordered by walls on its sides. On the platform when Link tries to just go up against the walls, they'll corner-cut him such that he walks in place and dies.

And yeah, Game Maker can be frustrating at times. I was recently experimenting with a dummy while loop so that I could break from it whenever I wanted to so that I could reduce condition checking, but meh, it gets a little complicated. Makes me kind of wish for "goto" statements even though apparently they are so bad, in certain instances, they'd be helpful if the person coded them correctly.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 12:49:51 am »
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awesome work.
i found a small bug/glitch:



if you walk onto the ice here and hit the green bouncy thing, link will only face in one direction no matter which way he is walking. shooting the bow gets rid of the glitch.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 09:05:24 am »
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I don't know what the glitch is that you are revering to, but I can't find anything wrong. When you hit the bounce object you bounce back facing in the same direction as when you hit the bounce object. During the time that you bounce back, you have no control over the movement of your character. This is the same for normal walking and for walking with the bow.

The difference is that walking with the bow you have a slower maximum speed. Thus the bouncing back is shorter. You could argue that when walking with the bow Link should bounce back. This can be solved using a lower bound on the maximum speed for bouncing.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 10:54:58 am »
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I don't know what the glitch is that you are revering to, but I can't find anything wrong. When you hit the bounce object you bounce back facing in the same direction as when you hit the bounce object. During the time that you bounce back, you have no control over the movement of your character. This is the same for normal walking and for walking with the bow.

The difference is that walking with the bow you have a slower maximum speed. Thus the bouncing back is shorter. You could argue that when walking with the bow Link should bounce back. This can be solved using a lower bound on the maximum speed for bouncing.

the bow has nothing to do with the glitch. it happens when you walk towards the bouncy thing either carring the lamp or nothing at all. link bounces back facing in the same direction which is fine, but when you try to turn any other direction, you cant. link just keeps facing to the right, no matter which direction you are walking in.
i only mentioned the bow in my last post because firing it seems to be the only way to reset the glitch.

edit: this glitch was found in v7. i havent tried v8 yet.

double edit:

it seems that the glitch occurs no matter which bouncy object you hit or from which side you hit it from.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 11:41:49 am by Skeme KOS »
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 05:50:49 pm »
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the bow has nothing to do with the glitch. it happens when you walk towards the bouncy thing either carring the lamp or nothing at all. link bounces back facing in the same direction which is fine, but when you try to turn any other direction, you cant. link just keeps facing to the right, no matter which direction you are walking in.
i only mentioned the bow in my last post because firing it seems to be the only way to reset the glitch.

edit: this glitch was found in v7. i havent tried v8 yet.

double edit:

it seems that the glitch occurs no matter which bouncy object you hit or from which side you hit it from.

The glitch wasn't in the v8. Apparently I forgot to alter state checks from numbers to scriptnames in the v7. It is fixed now.

I uploaded a new version once more in the first post the things done:

- With the bow reduced resources by calculating offsets.
- With the Lantern the resources are even far more reduced and also offsets are calculated.
- Added an animation for when Link puts the torch on fire.
- Changed the looking for flamable objects.

Look at the new rar-file in the first post. I haven't worked on the rolling speeds just yet.

EDIT: just noticed that the v7 is at least double the size of v8. GM8 is definitly better with the resources.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 07:35:53 pm by Niek »
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 07:53:53 pm »
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i found 2 more "glitches" that are not really that important but i thought id let you know about them anyway -

1.
when link is charging the bow, he cant walk in all 8 directions, instead he can only move in 6 directions.

2.
when you are walking next to a solid object and press towards the object while still walking along it, links walking speed slows down slightly.

check the image below



if you walk RIGHT here and then hold DOWN, links speed slows down.
same goes for any other solid "wall". horizontal or vertical.

i know these are nothing serious, but i just thought you should know.

i LOVE what you guys are doing with this engine and i truly hope to use it one day when i learn gml.


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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 08:18:11 pm »
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Skeme KOS, the first "glitch" you mention is something I couldn't replicate unless it was possibly in the version of the engine Niek most recently posted. The "second" glitch is likely intended. If you moved at a normal speed when moving diagonally towards the wall, you'd speed up as if you were moving normally. The slow down is intended as part of your motion is into the wall.

Oh, and what Niek said about the file size is true. Might as well just release all consequent versions of the engine in GM8.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 08:41:49 pm »
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i found 2 more "glitches" that are not really that important but i thought id let you know about them anyway -

1.
when link is charging the bow, he cant walk in all 8 directions, instead he can only move in 6 directions.
I'm not capable of replicating the problem either. In both v7 and v8 I can walk in all 8 directions.

2.
when you are walking next to a solid object and press towards the object while still walking along it, links walking speed slows down slightly.

check the image below



if you walk RIGHT here and then hold DOWN, links speed slows down.
same goes for any other solid "wall". horizontal or vertical.
Like 4Sword said, that is actually correct behavior.

i LOVE what you guys are doing with this engine and i truly hope to use it one day when i learn gml.
The best way to learn it is by doing it. Look over the work of others, read the help files by pressing F1 and you learn it fast enough. Try making something. I learned the basics over a few weeks and I'm still learning new things each time.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2010, 09:47:30 am »
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Skeme KOS, the first "glitch" you mention is something I couldn't replicate unless it was possibly in the version of the engine Niek most recently posted. The "second" glitch is likely intended. If you moved at a normal speed when moving diagonally towards the wall, you'd speed up as if you were moving normally. The slow down is intended as part of your motion is into the wall.

Oh, and what Niek said about the file size is true. Might as well just release all consequent versions of the engine in GM8.

hmm...thats strange that you cant replicate the 1st glitch i mentioned as it always happens for me.
and yeah, the second "glitch" actually makes sense to slow links speed down but this doesnt happen in A Link To The Past...not sure about the GBA zelda games though.
just thought id put it out there.
and yes, it was the most recent version that i came across these glitches...i cant test the older versions as i deleted it.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 09:56:21 am »
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i found 2 more "glitches" that are not really that important but i thought id let you know about them anyway -

1.
when link is charging the bow, he cant walk in all 8 directions, instead he can only move in 6 directions.
I'm not capable of replicating the problem either. In both v7 and v8 I can walk in all 8 directions.

2.
when you are walking next to a solid object and press towards the object while still walking along it, links walking speed slows down slightly.

check the image below



if you walk RIGHT here and then hold DOWN, links speed slows down.
same goes for any other solid "wall". horizontal or vertical.
Like 4Sword said, that is actually correct behavior.

i LOVE what you guys are doing with this engine and i truly hope to use it one day when i learn gml.
The best way to learn it is by doing it. Look over the work of others, read the help files by pressing F1 and you learn it fast enough. Try making something. I learned the basics over a few weeks and I'm still learning new things each time.

thanks niek, im just learning the very basics of gml at the moment(i didnt bother with drag n drop). i dont know any other programming languages at the moment so its all new to me.
my goal is to become as great as you guys one day, cuz then i could actually make a game thats good to play instead of simple example-type games.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 10:00:42 am »
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Skeme KOS, the first "glitch" you mention is something I couldn't replicate unless it was possibly in the version of the engine Niek most recently posted. The "second" glitch is likely intended. If you moved at a normal speed when moving diagonally towards the wall, you'd speed up as if you were moving normally. The slow down is intended as part of your motion is into the wall.

Oh, and what Niek said about the file size is true. Might as well just release all consequent versions of the engine in GM8.

hmm...thats strange that you cant replicate the 1st glitch i mentioned as it always happens for me.
and yeah, the second "glitch" actually makes sense to slow links speed down but this doesnt happen in A Link To The Past...not sure about the GBA zelda games though.
just thought id put it out there.
and yes, it was the most recent version that i came across these glitches...i cant test the older versions as i deleted it.

Try recording the glitch using CamStudio or something; might help out a bit if there was visual reference.

As for trying to do it myself; I'm not home, and I don't have GM8 :p
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 12:24:40 pm »
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Skeme KOS, the first "glitch" you mention is something I couldn't replicate unless it was possibly in the version of the engine Niek most recently posted. The "second" glitch is likely intended. If you moved at a normal speed when moving diagonally towards the wall, you'd speed up as if you were moving normally. The slow down is intended as part of your motion is into the wall.

Oh, and what Niek said about the file size is true. Might as well just release all consequent versions of the engine in GM8.

hmm...thats strange that you cant replicate the 1st glitch i mentioned as it always happens for me.
and yeah, the second "glitch" actually makes sense to slow links speed down but this doesnt happen in A Link To The Past...not sure about the GBA zelda games though.
just thought id put it out there.
and yes, it was the most recent version that i came across these glitches...i cant test the older versions as i deleted it.

Try recording the glitch using CamStudio or something; might help out a bit if there was visual reference.

As for trying to do it myself; I'm not home, and I don't have GM8 :p


here is a pic showing the only directions i can move in while charging the bow -



i cant move UP-LEFT and DOWN-RIGHT.
this happens for me in both versions. i am using GM7 PRO.
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 01:02:36 pm »
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There is also a GM7 version and both should have identical code.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 01:11:16 pm »
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I can't replicate the "glitch" either... There's only a brief millisecond that you can't change your direction after colliding with the bounce object, and that's pretty true to MC... The only glitch I can find is that if you press the opposite direction quick enough, you can actually flip your facing direction for that collision... Not even sure if I'd consider that a glitch.

Anyway; if I can't replicate it, I can almost guarantee it's not an issue :P Ask Fini about that one; I break everything.

I highly suggest you download CamStudio and record what you're experiencing, and give an exact time (in seconds) of where this glitch is occurring in the video.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 01:15:14 pm by Mamoruanime »
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Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 01:15:41 pm »
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here is a pic showing the only directions i can move in while charging the bow -



i cant move UP-LEFT and DOWN-RIGHT.
this happens for me in both versions. i am using GM7 PRO.

Oke, I have found an old laptop with GM7 Pro and I still can't replicate the glitch. SK, I mean no offense but is there a possibility that you can test it on a different computer and see if it still happens.

I would love to know if there are other people who also have this problem, that Skeme KOS has.


Oh, and what Niek said about the file size is true. Might as well just release all consequent versions of the engine in GM8.

I use GM8, because on the PC I use the most I have Pro for GM8 and Lite for GM7. Mostly because I can't register Pro for 7. Having Pro is usefull for initial programming of new actions.

But I still vote for having a GM7 version.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Bow (with charge), Rolling and Lantern
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 01:19:09 pm »
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here is a pic showing the only directions i can move in while charging the bow -



i cant move UP-LEFT and DOWN-RIGHT.
this happens for me in both versions. i am using GM7 PRO.

Oke, I have found an old laptop with GM7 Pro and I still can't replicate the glitch. SK, I mean no offense but is there a possibility that you can test it on a different computer and see if it still happens.

If what's happening is what I think is happening, you'd be better off having him give a video showing the glitch, instead of testing it on other machines. I'm reasonably positive it's just the bounce-back effect that locks your facing direction for a short time as apposed to an actual glitch. A video would show without a shadow of a doubt if it's a glitch.
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